I’ve reached a point where the dark and hopeless war movies aren’t compelling to me anymore. I couldn’t even finish the Pacific. I’ve grown up in a world where all of the war movies are dark and hopeless. That point has already been made so many times that it’s grown stale
I have to go to the shows and movies made around when I was born to see anything with a shred of heroism: Band of Brothers, Gladiator, Braveheart, the Patriot, etc...
"And he did not get Achilles’ glorious fall." Although at the end of the Iliad we know he's going to die shortly, Achilles' death is never portrayed. I think Homer couldn't figure out how to portray it. In Odysseus' journey to the underworld in the Odyssey, he speaks with Achilles, who doesn't seem much more satisfied with his fate than Basilone would have been with his:
"But you, Achilles, there's not a man more blest than you--/there never has been, never will be one./Time was, when you were alive, we Argives/honored you as a god, and now down here, I see, you lord it over the dead in all your power./So grieve no more at dying, great Achilles."/I reassured the ghost, but he broke out, protesting,/"No winning words about death to me, shining Odysseus!/By god, I'd rather slave on earth for another man--/some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive--/than rule down here over all the breathless dead." (Odyssey XI:478-491, Fagles translation.)
I should add that the manner of Achilles' demise is prefigured pretty plainly in the Iliad. When he's on his final rampage, one of the Trojans begs for his life, and Achilles says, "Come, friend, you too must die. Why moan about it so?/Even Patroclus died, a far better man than you./And look, you see how handsome and powerful I am?/The son of a great man, the mother who gave me life/a deathless goddess. But even for me, I tell you,/death and the strong force of fate are waiting./There will come a dawn or a sunset or high noon/when a man will take my life in battle too--/flinging a spear perhaps/or whipping a deadly arrow off his bow." (Iliad XXI:106-113)
Later, Hector, dying at his feet, says "But now beware, or my curse will draw god's wrath/upon your head, that day when Paris and lord Apollo--/for all your fighting heart--destroy you at thee Scaean Gates!" And Achilles responds, "Die, die!/For my own death, I'll meet it freely--whenever Zeus/and the other deathless gods would like to bring it on."(Iliad XXII:358-360, 365-66).
We lump everything under the banner of the Second World War and then portray it as brave soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy fighting a determined foe where it was just a bunch of young men on both sides with a job to do full of honor and glory. But the war in Northwest Europe was just one war.
The Pacific War was a savage kill-or-be-killed affair. The German-Soviet War the same. I don't know how anyone fought on Iwo Jima or at Stalingrad without losing their goddamn mind
After really liking Band of Brothers, this was a pretty big let down for me.
I loved the E.B. Sledge memoir on which part of this is based ('With the Old Breed'), but they somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with The Pacific.
It's been a long time since I saw it (when it came out), so memory is fuzzy on exactly all the reasons why...
I’ve reached a point where the dark and hopeless war movies aren’t compelling to me anymore. I couldn’t even finish the Pacific. I’ve grown up in a world where all of the war movies are dark and hopeless. That point has already been made so many times that it’s grown stale
I have to go to the shows and movies made around when I was born to see anything with a shred of heroism: Band of Brothers, Gladiator, Braveheart, the Patriot, etc...
Agree — it detracts from the show. Worse than BB
"And he did not get Achilles’ glorious fall." Although at the end of the Iliad we know he's going to die shortly, Achilles' death is never portrayed. I think Homer couldn't figure out how to portray it. In Odysseus' journey to the underworld in the Odyssey, he speaks with Achilles, who doesn't seem much more satisfied with his fate than Basilone would have been with his:
"But you, Achilles, there's not a man more blest than you--/there never has been, never will be one./Time was, when you were alive, we Argives/honored you as a god, and now down here, I see, you lord it over the dead in all your power./So grieve no more at dying, great Achilles."/I reassured the ghost, but he broke out, protesting,/"No winning words about death to me, shining Odysseus!/By god, I'd rather slave on earth for another man--/some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive--/than rule down here over all the breathless dead." (Odyssey XI:478-491, Fagles translation.)
Wonderful. Delighted to stand corrected!
Thanks for the comment
I should add that the manner of Achilles' demise is prefigured pretty plainly in the Iliad. When he's on his final rampage, one of the Trojans begs for his life, and Achilles says, "Come, friend, you too must die. Why moan about it so?/Even Patroclus died, a far better man than you./And look, you see how handsome and powerful I am?/The son of a great man, the mother who gave me life/a deathless goddess. But even for me, I tell you,/death and the strong force of fate are waiting./There will come a dawn or a sunset or high noon/when a man will take my life in battle too--/flinging a spear perhaps/or whipping a deadly arrow off his bow." (Iliad XXI:106-113)
Later, Hector, dying at his feet, says "But now beware, or my curse will draw god's wrath/upon your head, that day when Paris and lord Apollo--/for all your fighting heart--destroy you at thee Scaean Gates!" And Achilles responds, "Die, die!/For my own death, I'll meet it freely--whenever Zeus/and the other deathless gods would like to bring it on."(Iliad XXII:358-360, 365-66).
Yes that’s his whole schtick!
We lump everything under the banner of the Second World War and then portray it as brave soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy fighting a determined foe where it was just a bunch of young men on both sides with a job to do full of honor and glory. But the war in Northwest Europe was just one war.
The Pacific War was a savage kill-or-be-killed affair. The German-Soviet War the same. I don't know how anyone fought on Iwo Jima or at Stalingrad without losing their goddamn mind
After really liking Band of Brothers, this was a pretty big let down for me.
I loved the E.B. Sledge memoir on which part of this is based ('With the Old Breed'), but they somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with The Pacific.
It's been a long time since I saw it (when it came out), so memory is fuzzy on exactly all the reasons why...
Nice. I hear Sledge's memoir was pretty bleak, hence bleakness of the show.
I liked it, but yes, nowhere near as sublime as Band of Brothers. For the reasons I state in the piece!